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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 8, 2007 15:02:29 GMT -5
didnt we go over the water thing already. Did u miss that, 1 God is not triune, 2 the term trinity in realation to God was created by man, and 3 No one and I mean no in scripture taught a triune God. It is not the same as oneness. u are right with sematics trinity see three co equal blah blah blah and those that are of the oneness belive that God is God, that Jesus is that same all powerful everlasting God. They are not complementary. While Oneness can see the different manifistation of the one God. trinity does not. They see each manifistation seperate from the first. 1 god + 1god + 1god equal 3. As i stated above your post
"but but but but but but but but the trinity is just to spiritual for our finate minds. we can not comprehend the things of God. who is above us. the bible shows us God's triune nature. I mean they were all right there at the baptism of Jesus. So how would u explain that?" (<-------Sarcasm.)
and u said
The concept of the Trinity is hard for the natural mind to conceive. We are instructed that the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit. But, ye are not carnally minded and able to handle strong meat.
It is and foever will be the excuse why no one can get the trinity doctorine.
the problem is if the trinity taught God manisfested Himself to the world three differnt ways then but it was the same God that did it you would no longer call it trinitarian it would be oneness. The sad part is God manifested himself many ways to the people of isreal, Jesus being the last, so once again we go from three to several Gods in the godhead.
Praise Him
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 8, 2007 16:00:36 GMT -5
Seriphrim:
First, the analogy is true... your inability to accept it doesn't make it less significant or useless as a tool to explain the concept of the Trinity. Next, the Trinity doesn't say God is three God's... The Trinity declares God to be ONE.
The carnal part of your mind is stuck in the earth... it fails to see how God transcends the physical laws of nature; to reveal Himself unto mankind in three separate manifestations... As God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit; while remaining, One God. Hear Israel the Lord our God is one...
Theologians deal in the art of semantics. Often there differences are the result of their own semantics. The Trinity is a theological concept that attempts to explain the person of God... which no man has seen. Just as the Oneness theological doctrine offers an human linguistic explanation for the person of God... which they have not seen. It is this argument based in semantics; the contextual meanings and the relationship between signs and symbols that confuses many.
The Trinity uses semantics to express the Spiritual concept of the Trinity. However, many don't understand that the doctrine of the Trinity does not promote the concept of three separate Gods... independent of the other. The Trinity promotes the worship of One God with three manifestations.
Water is a sign... a symbol, an analogy placed in nature by God to demonstrate how One element can have three separate manifestations but remain One. This analogy is easily understood for those with an eye to see or an ear to hear.
The doctrine of the Trinity is theologies exercise in linguistic semantics, seeking to explain the Godhead... God's manifestation of Himself to mankind: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit... all THREE One. This concept does not declare God to be three separate God's as it specifically declares from the beginning that God is One. It simply, offers an explanation for God appearing unto man as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
After all, some believers have difficulty in understanding how God would speak to Himself from the cross... or how Jesus would cry out ,"... Father why hath thou forsaken Me." or why Jesus Christ the Son of God would pray to Himself for help and comfort... seeing He is the Father and the Son, eternal God at the same time.
The Trinity is not mutually exclusive of Oneness... it believes and espouses... teaches there is only One God and Father of us all. Get over it... stop wrestling with the semantics of mans language and believe. God is One who has manifested Himself thru the Godhead as three beings unto mankind... God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit... One Lord and One God of us all.
Prophet.
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Post by purly on Jul 8, 2007 16:20:25 GMT -5
three beings ?
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 8, 2007 16:32:09 GMT -5
first my mind is not carnal, to have a carnal mind is to be in sin, which I am not. Second the trinity is the belief in three Gods no matter how u put it it will always come back to the same thing three God. each DISTINCT- distint means different, trinity claims eash is his own person. Jesus was never God the son that is false, there is no God the Holyspirit. You make three differnet gods in that statment. Trinity always does. It is not me that is void of understanding. As you said the godhead is three BEINGS. God is spirit, spirit is not a being the holyghost is a spirit u can not seperate them from each other. You will not go to heavn and see God the spirt God the father or God the son. You will only see Jesus as the visible image of an invisble God. Jesus was a man, he himself was not eternal but God in him was. Sorry if I am not a theologian, not do I go off of anyone else's theology but from the ispirered word of God. as I stated there is no trinity to use the term trinity to explain God is false. God manifiested himself in many ways to the people not just three. If you go off of manifisttation alone we would have an army of gods running around. If you believe God is one then why use the term trinity in the first place.
Praise Him
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 8, 2007 16:45:06 GMT -5
this is from Joseph in this very thread about your water theory.
"So 2 parts are are hydrogen and one part is oxygen,doesn't sound co equal to me.One is not the same as the other 2.The other 2 are clones and one is an odd ball.One is no good without the other meaning one has something the other 2 do not have and the other 2 have something the one doesn't have.There you go, 3 gods making up a one god corporation of water.a water god if you will.Trinitarian water god too! Who is the FATHER of JESUS?JESUS spoke of the "FATHER" HE had to have been referring to the HOLY GHOST because it says Mary was found with child of the HOLY GHOST.The water may take on different forms but it is still the same water, The ice isn't a seperate distinct body of water and the etam another and the water another.It is all a manifestation of the same water.GOD is ONE.HE is FATHER in CREATION.He is also a SPIRIT and is HOLY-HOLY SPIRIT.Not 2 distinct entities, but the SAME person 2 different attributes.This self same being manifested HIMSELF in the man JESUS CHRIST."
Like he said that would not explain the trinity seeing how water is H2O u cant have water without the those components. You are saying that God father needs God the son and God the Holyghost to be God. That God the father is Hydrogen the you would need two Jesus's or two Holyghost's seeing how an Oxygen molecule cant be different. If you take the same pot of water and freeze it then take it and boil it till it evaporates does that mean that the water was triune? ex: would u call the water-water the water, water the steam, and water the ice. No it would be the same water but in differnt modes but yet its the same water that u started out with. that very water became the steam and the ice. It did not need the ice or the steam to be water.
Praise him
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 0:43:04 GMT -5
The Spirit of Life;
Christ the Son; is the Spirit of Life, ie; a Quickening Spirit,the Last Adam, the Lord From Heaven;
1CO 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1CO 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1CO 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1JN 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1JN 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1JN 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1JN 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1JN 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by purly on Jul 9, 2007 0:55:49 GMT -5
Amen
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 1:24:04 GMT -5
Seriphim: An analogy is not an exact representation... it is a picture, an example, a close likeness, it is not identical. Water is an earthly analogy of a spiritual concept... it is not a precise representation of the Trinity. If I speak to you of earthly things and you don't comprehend them how can I speak to you of heavenly things... You have characterized the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine that believes in three separate Gods, rather than One. This simply is a gross misrepresentation... I hope based on ignorance rather than malicious intent. Please go to the following web site for a precise theological explanation of the Trinity: Trinity Doctrine, Explaining the Trinity, Doctrine of the Trinity, One ... [glow=red,2,300]The Trinity Doctrine is the One God revealed through three distinct Persons as ... [/glow]Explaining the Doctrine of the Trinity and Answering Objections ... www.afcministry.com/Trinity_Doctrine.htm A simple web search will also give you references on the doctrine of the Trinity... or simply click on the reference above. Note, " Trinity Doctrine, Explaining the Trinity, Doctrine of the Trinity, One... The Trinity Doctrine is the One God revealed through three distinct Persons. You are simply misinformed... and have been making claims and false statements without having the facts. Anyone can confirm the Trinity Doctrines' beliefe in One God... by clicking on the web address above or by doing a simple search using the words 'Doctrine of the Trinity'. I hope you make an effort to amend your statements concerning the Trinity teaching Three Gods... There are only semantical differences between the Oneness and Trinity doctrine... You may want to look up the word semantical to understand what I just said. The Doctrine of the Trinity does not oppose the Doctrine of Oneness... it simply, uses different language when referring to God. Example, the use of person is not precisely correct when referring to God; as God is not a person, in the ethereal sense He is a Spirit. However, it is not incorrect to speak of God as a person when one understands that the term person, when applied to God a Spirit, is not the same as when applied to a human. The use of entity or manifestation... again, these are semantical terms that may carry various meanings depending on their use. One must take such terms and concepts in context to get the correct meaning. Additionally, the KJV and others are English translations of the Greek and Hebrew original text. The Greek and Hebrew don't always translate litteraly (word for word) into English... making it important to study the entire text to engender the precise meaning being conveyed by the original text. These all lead to semantical differences in interpretation. Finally, an honest and sincere look at the doctrine of the Trinity will reveal very little difference between it and the doctrine of Oneness... barring extreme interpretations, or misrepresentations. The differences are the result of semantics, there is little substantive difference. The Oneness and Trinity doctrines can exist side by side... the Trinity acknowledges the Oneness of God... It doesn't promote polytheism or the worship of three independent and separate Gods. Prophet.
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 1:51:59 GMT -5
Prophet
The One True God is revealed in One Distinct Person;
Christ the Son of God; ISA 9;6
You are Teaching False Doctrine;
1JN 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1JN 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 2:07:32 GMT -5
The Question Should Be; Is Trinity the Doctrine of Christ;? Is this the Doctrine of Christ? "Trinity Doctrine, Explaining the Trinity, Doctrine of the Trinity, One ... The Trinity Doctrine is the One God revealed through three distinct Persons as ... Explaining the Doctrine of the Trinity and Answering Objections ... www.afcministry.com/Trinity_Doctrine.htm " You you cannot back up your Doctrine with the Word of God; whom is Christ; then your Doctrine is False; 2JN 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2JN 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 2JN 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 2:16:41 GMT -5
The Question Should Be; Is Trinity the Doctrine of Christ;? Is this the Doctrine of Christ? "Trinity Doctrine, Explaining the Trinity, Doctrine of the Trinity, One ... The Trinity Doctrine is the One God revealed through three distinct Persons as ... Explaining the Doctrine of the Trinity and Answering Objections ... www.afcministry.com/Trinity_Doctrine.htm " You you cannot back up your Doctrine with the Word of God; whom is Christ; then your Doctrine is False; 2JN 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2JN 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 2JN 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2CO 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2CO 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2CO 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. 2CO 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been thoroughly made manifest among you in all things Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 2:31:03 GMT -5
Philip:
Exactly, I see no contradiction here. When you say One God the Trinity agrees, there is only one God. When you say Jesus is God... the Trinity also says Jesus is God. When you say their is no difference in the Father and Son or the Holy Spirit... the Trinity agrees they are all One.
Any perceived diference becomes one based in pride and semantics... the inability to reach agreement without the precise language of another is prideful. Linguistic semantics create and explain the differences in the terminology used to explain God... Person, entity, manifestation... these all are circular arguments, with little substantive difference.
You may want to examine what Trinitarians actually believe before espousing trinitarian doctrine in their name. The Trinity does not teach three separate, independant God's... it teaches One God, three manifestations. There is no substantive difference from Oneness doctrine; other than the circular arguments based in semantics; as to what person, entity, and manifestation mean.
As previously stated one can argue that God is not a person in the sense of a human... One can argue that God is an entity that manifests Himself in the persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... One can go round and round over the terminology of how God presented Himself to mankind... as a Spirit, in the Flesh and thru His Word.
However, the central truth is the same God is One... One God. This central truth is upheld by the doctrine of the Trinity. The differences are simply semantical arguments... based in part on denominational pride and theology.
The Truth is there is only one True Chruch and it has no denominational name... it is called the Body of Christ and is made up of believers in Jesus Christ the Son of God. The truth is that many theologans work deligently to confuse the truth, in order to exert control over a segment of the Church... The truth is that doctrinal difference have divided the Body of Christ and God is not happy over its divison.
The truth is that the Body of Christ is to be One even as God is One. We all need to come together in unity... agreeing on the central truths of One God, One Lord and Baptisim into the family of God. The facts are that this will not happen until Jesus Christ returns for His Church... then, we shall all see clearly and all our current differences will seem petty... as they are petty.
Prophet.
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 2:49:08 GMT -5
Prophet
When you say that God is revealed through three distinct Persons; You must have the Scripture to back up your belief/Doctrine;
Scripture, ie the Gospel which is the Word of God, is not a question of Semantics; and is not of any private interpretation; 2PE 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2PE 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2PE 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2PE 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2PE 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Those who teach such, pervert the Word of God;
PR 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
PR 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 2:52:11 GMT -5
Explaining the Trinity
The Bible teaches that there is only one God. (Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:22)
The Bibles teaches that there is one who is called the Father and is identified as being God. (1 Peter 1:2)
The Bible teaches that there is one who is called Jesus and is identified as being God. (John 1:1-3&14-18, John 20:28-29, 1 John 1:1-4&5:20, Philippians 2:5-8, Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 22:12-20)
The Bible teaches that there is one who is called the Holy Spirit and is identified as being God. (John 14:16-17, John 15:26, John 16:7-15, Acts 5:3-4, Acts 13:2, 1 Corinthians 12:4-18, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 10:15-18)
There are things in life that are triune in nature but one. For example: An egg is one but with three distinctions. You have the yoke, the white, and the shell, but all three composite the one egg. Another example: A piece of fruit such as the peach has three components. A peach has the outer layer (the skin), the inner layer (the juicy stuff known as the meat), and the core. All three components composite the one peach.
Other things that we have in our everyday lives that are triune is water. Water is one substance that can be liquid, gas, and solid distinctly or all at the same. The following quote is from the late Dr. Walter Martin: "It is a well-known fact of chemistry that plain water, when placed in a vacuum under 230 millimeters of gas pressure and at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade, solidifies into ice at the bottom of the container, remains liquid in the center and vaporizes at the top! At a given instant the same water is both solid, liquid and gas, yet all three are manifestations of the same basic substance or nature: H2O - hydrogen: two parts; oxygen: one. If one of the simplest of all created substances can be three in manifested form and yet remain one in nature, then the Creator of that substance can surely be Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three Persons and one Nature - without any violation of logic or reason whatever if He so wills."
If an egg, a peach, and water can have three distinct things and all be one at the same time, than the Almighty should have no problem. The word Trinity is way of explaining the belief in one God revealed through three distinct persons. Some people get all hung up on the issue of the Bible teaching there is only one God. No where does the Bible state God is only one person, but it does say God is one in Deuteronomy 6:4. The word for one there is the Hebrew word Echad, which means a composite unity. For examples of this consider Genesis 1:5, Genesis 2:24, Ezra 2:64, Ezekiel 37:17 where the same Hebrew word Echad is used and means one in unity, not in number! The Bible teaches there is one Church but many members and there is no problems with understanding this, yet when it comes to God some seem to have problems.
The above contains a synopsis of the scriptural basis for the Trinity. To say that the Trinity is not based on scripture is false... as clearly seen above.
Again, most of the objections to the Trinity by Oneness are based on semantical arguments... what is an entity, can a entity be a person also? Certainly, the English definitions would suppose that a person is an entity... Can a person or entity manifest... using the simple definitions a person or entity is a manifestation. Therefore, the use of these terms to define God are nearly interchangeable depending on the precise context of there use.
However, neither doctrine contains a full and complete explanation of the essence of God and the Godhead... We see dimly now as thru a glass but when we come face to face with God we will see clearly and know all things. Any current claim to know all things clearly... exactly by any member of the Church is a false claim.
Therefore, seeing that we only know in part the hidden mysteries of God... Why do we assault one another over semantical difference in our view of God. We all agree that it our salvation rests upon faith in the name of Jesus Christ... We all agree in principal on the fundamental doctrines of baptism and salvation... on the building blocks of the Church.
Let us therefore, hold to our faith and let God who is the author and finisher of our faith complete His work in us... that we may lack in no good thing. I thank God for those on this site... for my brother and sisters who hold to the doctrine of Oneness and the Apostles. I love each and ever person here; male and female... and pray for their prosperity, health and happiness.
Let us therefore come together in the Lord... in the fellowship of the Spirit, in Love... That the world may see and be drawn to the light of Jesus Christ the Son of God... That we all may come into the unity of the faith, unto the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 3:18:41 GMT -5
Prophet 2JN 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
RO 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
RO 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
RO 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
RO 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
RO 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
RO 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 9, 2007 3:54:27 GMT -5
Prohet you anologies are not spirtual, not even close they only hurt you and whatever point you try to make. I am not going to repeat what I said and verious other have shown you where u are wrong also. Trinity and Oneness are not the same their belief is not the same. We can let time tell which is right and which is wrong. But by then i may be too late. Praise him
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Post by phillip on Jul 9, 2007 4:21:04 GMT -5
Prophet 'Question
Is the Son also the Father?
Jesus Saves Acts 2;38
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 16:01:56 GMT -5
To All:
The word essence is improperly applied when used in referring to the nature of rocks... Essence is the inward or central nature of an entity... Rocks don't have an inward nature. Rocks are material objects. They are inanimate objects, without life. Rocks don't have an essence nor are they entities... they are material objects void of animation. The word essence presupposes an inward animation, the existence of life. The word entity in its simply form implies: being, having a living existence. The word entity is correctly applied to living beings, not to inanimate material objects. Entities have an essence. Rocks have neither life nor a central nature, essence... Rocks are inanimate material objects.
The statement that "Water cannot be steam liquid and gas at the same time. But God is always the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit"; doesn't accurately describe what occurs when water becomes ice, steam or is liquid. Water in any form: Ice, Steam or Liquid is always H20... its chemical essence never changes regardless of the physical form taken. The Chemistry involved... the essence, central chemical properties of water, is identical, unchanged... for each separate manifestation of water... Ice, Steam and Liquid. Steam, ice and liquid water are each chemically identical... There chemical essence is H20/water, no matter what physical form they take. Likewise, the essence of the Godhead is always identical in each manifestation: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit... they are all essentially identical, even though thy appear physically different.
The Doctrine of the Trinity explains the manifestation of One God, as three separate but identical beings... God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Water is the closest natural analogy which displays in physical and relevant human terms, God's manifestations in the earth. However, it is not perfect as nothing is perfect in the natural.
The analogy of the egg doesn't come close to the physical and metaphysical analogy provided by water. Again, water is chemically H20... it is always H20; even when manifested as Ice, or Steam. The Atomic make up of water is, unique in the universe; it is a bi-polar molecule, giving it the ability to take on three separate physical properties (bodies) without any change to its chemical properties; (it is chemically identical) the same in all physical forms...
God like the example of water manifests Himself to man in three separate identities: as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, all three (in essence) identical... they are ONE. Why do you kick against the prick? Hath pride swallow thee whole, blinding you to the truth? The Doctrine of Oneness is not mutually exclusive of the Doctrine of the Trinity... the Trinity describes One God, three manifestations.
The Trinity doesn't describe three separate, individual Gods... Each manifestation of God, is in essence identically the same. Just as Ice, Steam and Liquid water have a Chemical essence that is always, always the same... H20. Water manifest itself with three separate identities... solid, vapor/gaseous and liquid. Likewise, God manifest Himself with three separate identities... yet, God is always the same in each manifestation; His essence remains unchanged in each form taken... God is One.
The Trinity is not mutually exclusive of Oneness. The Trinity simply declares three manifestations of One... God. One God who chooses to declare Himself unto man as: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost... all three One.
Finally, the essence (central being) of God is always Spirit. The true essence of man is always spirit. The outward manifestations of man come in many physical variations and bodies... Each person/entity with their own identity. God who is not a man... His ways are not mankind's ways, His ways are higher. He is able to do exceeding and abundantly more that we can imagine or receive. God declares all things are possible only believe.
Therefore, be no more confounded... confused by mans theology. The nature of God is made visible thru His creation and Word... the invisible appearing visible to those with an eye to see and an ear to hear. God created the simple to confound the wise... the simplicity of the Trinity rest in the visible things of this world... water, the source of natural life declares the image of God the giver of all life.
There is no mystical cloud that hinders man's ability to see God or to understand Him... the mystery of God is hidden from the natural mind of man but is understood clearly by those who are exercised in the faith... in the Word of God. Be no more ignorant as some... but study to show thyself approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of God. It is the Word of God that declares the Truth and the Truth will set you free... from the doctrines of men to live in the pure doctrine of Jesus Christ Himself.
God bless and keep you...may His countenance shine upon you and may you have health, prosperity, love, peace and joy abundantly in this life. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 16:32:12 GMT -5
Phillip:
God the Father and God the Son are One... they are identical, the same. Just as Ice is water, identical with the same essential chemical makeup (essence).
Do they have different bodies and can they co-exist in different forms and bodies? Yes, yes and yes. How is this possible... God is not limited to the physical laws of this demension... Universe. He transcends the laws of physics.
However, the physics of the universe can explain how a being can be in more than one place at the same moment in time... and appear in multiple forms. If man's physics can explain how this is possible how much more is God able to do?
The theory of relativity mathematically proves that matter can move between dimensions as energy and that time ceases to exist in relation to our present demension... making it possible to move matter in time forward or backward... as in a time machine. Quantum physics has demonstrated that the invisible things in the universe are the fundamental building blocks of the visible things... Man's knowledge is ever expanding and if left unchecked by God will eventually find the keys to the tree of life.
Be not so quick to judge... for with what measure ye judge, ye shall also be judged. Be slow to speak and choose your words wisely for the tongue is set on fire by hell... with it we bless God and curse man made in the image of God.
Avoid placing words in the mouths of others... choosing to define their beliefs without knowing them or their personal view on a matter. Being quick to respond before hearing... receiving the facts.
There is all to many experts here for me to continue to engage in a discussion on a doctrine that the majority here claim not to believe. Too continue doubtful disputations about a doctrine that is not first clearly understood by those who claim to speak for it or about it.
I will refrain from any further posts... regarding the Trinity. It was my intention to assist those who claim knowledge of the Doctrine of the Trinity that it doesn't teach multiple Gods... Rather, it teaches One God with three manifestations... It teaches as Jesus Christ prayed in St. John 17:20-26... that we may all be one even as He and His Father are One.
I therefore, pray that we all may come into the unity of the faith... in Love. Growing up into the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. May God richly bless each of you... with peach, prosperity and health. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 9, 2007 16:34:46 GMT -5
did you even answer phillips question, no one care about the analogy, u talk about how we can comprehend God with our minds yet you compare him to water. anyway
Is the Son also the Father
Its a yes or no answer.
Praise him
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 9, 2007 16:47:20 GMT -5
oh forgive me after looking at you post closer I see that you did answer. U believe that god the father has a different body then god the son. then how is sematics the only difference between trinitarian veiws and onesness. when oneness beleivers say that Jesus is the only body that houses eternal spirit of God which is also the HolyGhost. I just don't see how they are the same. You cleary say there are three bodies, serperated from each other, they only act as one God in thougth and action. That my friend is three Gods not one. Once again the water does not work because water itself need certain conditions to change it's state God does not. Water can not become ice, or steam on it's own. By that reason you would need a forth God that would give the power to the other three am i correct.
"My people parish cause of lack of knowledge."
Priase Him
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 9, 2007 16:48:23 GMT -5
oh and also you are saying they are triplets. wow didnt see that one coming.
Praise Him
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 17:16:41 GMT -5
Phillip:
God the Father and God the Son are One... they are identical, the same. Just as Ice is water, identical with the same essential chemical makeup (essence).
Do they have different bodies and can they co-exist in different forms and bodies? Yes, yes and yes. How is this possible... God is not limited to the physical laws of this demension... Universe. He transcends the laws of physics.
However, the physics of the universe can explain how a being can be in more than one place at the same moment in time... and appear in multiple forms. If man's physics can explain how this is possible how much more is God able to do?
The theory of relativity mathematically proves that matter can move between dimensions as energy and that time ceases to exist in relation to our present demension... making it possible to move matter in time forward or backward... as in a time machine. Quantum physics has demonstrated that the invisible things in the universe are the fundamental building blocks of the visible things... Man's knowledge is ever expanding and if left unchecked by God will eventually find the keys to the tree of life.
Be not so quick to judge... for with what measure ye judge, ye shall also be judged. Be slow to speak and choose your words wisely for the tongue is set on fire by hell... with it we bless God and curse man made in the image of God.
Avoid placing words in the mouths of others... choosing to define their beliefs without knowing them or their personal view on a matter. Being quick to respond before hearing... receiving the facts.
There is all to many experts here for me to continue to engage in a discussion on a doctrine that the majority here claim not to believe. Too continue doubtful disputations about a doctrine that is not first clearly understood by those who claim to speak for it or about it.
I will refrain from any further posts... regarding the Trinity. It was my intention to assist those who claim knowledge of the Doctrine of the Trinity that it doesn't teach multiple Gods... Rather, it teaches One God with three manifestations... It teaches as Jesus Christ prayed in St. John 17:20-26... that we may all be one even as He and His Father are One.
I therefore, pray that we all may come into the unity of the faith... in Love. Growing up into the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. May God richly bless each of you... with peach, prosperity and health. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 17:18:13 GMT -5
Phillip:
God the Father and God the Son are One... they are identical, the same. Just as Ice is water, identical with the same essential chemical makeup (essence).
Do they have different bodies and can they co-exist in different forms and bodies? Yes, yes and yes. How is this possible... God is not limited to the physical laws of this demension... Universe. He transcends the laws of physics.
However, the physics of the universe can explain how a being can be in more than one place at the same moment in time... and appear in multiple forms. If man's physics can explain how this is possible how much more is God able to do?
The theory of relativity mathematically proves that matter can move between dimensions as energy and that time ceases to exist in relation to our present demension... making it possible to move matter in time forward or backward... as in a time machine. Quantum physics has demonstrated that the invisible things in the universe are the fundamental building blocks of the visible things... Man's knowledge is ever expanding and if left unchecked by God will eventually find the keys to the tree of life.
Be not so quick to judge... for with what measure ye judge, ye shall also be judged. Be slow to speak and choose your words wisely for the tongue is set on fire by hell... with it we bless God and curse man made in the image of God.
Avoid placing words in the mouths of others... choosing to define their beliefs without knowing them or their personal view on a matter. Being quick to respond before hearing... receiving the facts.
There is all to many experts here for me to continue to engage in a discussion on a doctrine that the majority here claim not to believe. Too continue doubtful disputations about a doctrine that is not first clearly understood by those who claim to speak for it or about it.
I will refrain from any further posts... regarding the Trinity. It was my intention to assist those who claim knowledge of the Doctrine of the Trinity that it doesn't teach multiple Gods... Rather, it teaches One God with three manifestations... It teaches as Jesus Christ prayed in St. John 17:20-26... that we may all be one even as He and His Father are One.
I therefore, pray that we all may come into the unity of the faith... in Love. Growing up into the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. May God richly bless each of you... with peach, prosperity and health. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 9, 2007 17:20:14 GMT -5
Phillip:
God the Father and God the Son are One... they are identical, the same. Just as Ice is water, identical with the same essential chemical makeup (essence).
Do they have different bodies and can they co-exist in different forms and bodies? Yes, yes and yes. How is this possible... God is not limited to the physical laws of this demension... Universe. He transcends the laws of physics.
However, the physics of the universe can explain how a being can be in more than one place at the same moment in time... and appear in multiple forms. If man's physics can explain how this is possible how much more is God able to do?
The theory of relativity mathematically proves that matter can move between dimensions as energy and that time ceases to exist in relation to our present demension... making it possible to move matter in time forward or backward... as in a time machine. Quantum physics has demonstrated that the invisible things in the universe are the fundamental building blocks of the visible things... Man's knowledge is ever expanding and if left unchecked by God will eventually find the keys to the tree of life.
Be not so quick to judge... for with what measure ye judge, ye shall also be judged. Be slow to speak and choose your words wisely for the tongue is set on fire by hell... with it we bless God and curse man made in the image of God.
Avoid placing words in the mouths of others... choosing to define their beliefs without knowing them or their personal view on a matter. Being quick to respond before hearing... receiving the facts.
There is all to many experts here for me to continue to engage in a discussion on a doctrine that the majority here claim not to believe. Too continue doubtful disputations about a doctrine that is not first clearly understood by those who claim to speak for it or about it.
I will refrain from any further posts... regarding the Trinity. It was my intention to assist those who claim knowledge of the Doctrine of the Trinity that it doesn't teach multiple Gods... Rather, it teaches One God with three manifestations... It teaches as Jesus Christ prayed in St. John 17:20-26... that we may all be one even as He and His Father are One.
I therefore, pray that we all may come into the unity of the faith... in Love. Growing up into the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ. May God richly bless each of you... with peace, prosperity and health. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by joseph7 on Jul 10, 2007 19:28:56 GMT -5
They were all present at the baptism?Hm,mmm.Last time I looked, I was SURE GOD was omnipresent.Not everyone saw THE SPIRIT descend and remain on JESUS.This was a sign to John as to who the MESSIAH was.The voice from Heaven.If the SPIRIT was manifested to John visually, it seems POSSIBLE the SAME SPIRIT could have also SPOKE?Are we saying THE HOLY SPIRIT is mute?So GOD the FATHER had to speak on HIS behalf?Doesn't sound like "co-equal" to me.Sounds like it took all HIS power to manifest HIMSELF physically to John.Your trinity doctrine falls short.You never answered my questions.
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Post by joseph7 on Jul 10, 2007 19:33:09 GMT -5
One last thing, the reason the trinity is a (not so divine) MYSTERY is because it is purely man made.Proof?Romans 1:20 Paul states " for the Invisible things of GOD since the creatiion of the world are CLEARLY SEEN AND UNDERSTOOD by the things that are made EVEN HIS eternal power AND GODHEAD" Seeing the GODHEAD is CLEARLY seen AND UNDERSTOOD, this leaves the trinitarians with a doctrine they cannot explain.However WE understand the GODHEAD, because HE is ONE GOD, not 3 gods making up a one god corporation sharing an essence, a milkshake, a bathtub or anything else.
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 10, 2007 22:03:01 GMT -5
Milshake, bathtub? owww i get it sarcasm.
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Post by soterking on Jul 11, 2007 6:59:20 GMT -5
Some trinitarians actually do believe in 3 separate persons. Some say they do not. But the definition of TRINITY is as listed below
Some Trinitarians are just as wrong as an OP....and Im sure that you wouldn't agree with every OP.
Soter King
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 11, 2007 10:33:32 GMT -5
well OP believe in one God, in that they agree, all trinitarians believe in three, no matter how they put it it always come back to being three seperate Gods that agree as one. Nest is the different doctornal issues, case in point dress. Some beleive that women should wear dresses other believe it is legalism and people should be able to come as they are.
Praise Him
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