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Post by Lisa on Jun 18, 2007 10:47:46 GMT -5
God is one" (Galatians 3:20).
There is one God. There is only one God.
"Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:10-11).
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"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6).
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8).
"I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself" (Isaiah 44:24).
"There is none beside me. I am the LORD and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:6).
"There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22).
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9).
"I will not give my glory unto another" (Isaiah 48:11; see also Isaiah 42:8).
"O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth" (Isaiah 37:16).
There is only one God, who is the Creator and Father of mankind (Malachi 2:10). In the time of the Millennial Reign, there shall be only one LORD with one name (Zechariah 14:9).
The Bible speaks for itself and does not teach a trinity doctrine, friend.
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Post by ax on Jun 18, 2007 11:01:14 GMT -5
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word was made flesh…" (John 1:1, 14).
God is a Spirit without flesh and blood and invisible to man. In order to make Himself visible to man and in order to shed innocent blood for our sins, He had to put on flesh. Who put on flesh and became man? GOD did, and his name is Jesus.
The oneness of God is undeniably revealed in the Scriptures. Both Old Testament and New Testament contain numerous references to God's oneness.
Only one divine GOD exists, that single divine Being can manifest Himself in three different modes at once--as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus is the one. God is among us. This is the gospel we are to proclaim, the good news of our lives.
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Post by soterking on Jun 18, 2007 12:03:46 GMT -5
Lisa,
Lisa,
God is one" (Galatians 3:20).
There is one God. There is only one God.
"Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:10-11).
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"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6).
"Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8).
"I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself" (Isaiah 44:24).
"There is none beside me. I am the LORD and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:6).
"There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22).
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9).
"I will not give my glory unto another" (Isaiah 48:11; see also Isaiah 42:8).
"O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth" (Isaiah 37:16).
There is only one God, who is the Creator and Father of mankind (Malachi 2:10). In the time of the Millennial Reign, there shall be only one LORD with one name (Zechariah 14:9).
Amen to all of the above...
The Bible speaks for itself and does not teach a trinity doctrine, friend.[/color]It absolutely does.
Soter King
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Post by soterking on Jun 18, 2007 14:07:18 GMT -5
ax, God is a Spirit without flesh and blood and invisible to man. In order to make Himself visible to man and in order to shed innocent blood for our sins, He had to put on flesh. Who put on flesh and became man? GOD did, and his name is Jesus. No problem there.
The oneness of God is undeniably revealed in the Scriptures. Both Old Testament and New Testament contain numerous references to God's oneness.As a trinitarian I also believe in the onenes of God. To say that there is One God in Three Persons is to believe in oneness
Only one divine GOD exists, that single divine Being can manifest Himself in three different modes at once--as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Modes that appear to be in personal relationship with each other. Since they appear to have that capacity and quality of personhood...why not call them what they appear to be? Persons.
soter king
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Post by onenessbeliever on Jun 18, 2007 17:12:05 GMT -5
ax,God is a Spirit without flesh and blood and invisible to man. In order to make Himself visible to man and in order to shed innocent blood for our sins, He had to put on flesh. Who put on flesh and became man? GOD did, and his name is Jesus.No problem there.The oneness of God is undeniably revealed in the Scriptures. Both Old Testament and New Testament contain numerous references to God's oneness.As a trinitarian I also believe in the onenes of God. To say that there is One God in Three Persons is to believe in onenessOnly one divine GOD exists, that single divine Being can manifest Himself in three different modes at once--as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Modes that appear to be in personal relationship with each other. Since they appear to have that capacity and quality of personhood...why not call them what they appear to be? Persons. soter king Will We See the Father and Jesus in Heaven? One God and three persons is not scriptural. Three manifestations, yes. Three persons? No. God's existence in the incarnation is distinct from His continued existence apart from the incarnation. To greet the church in the Father and Lord Jesus Christ is to speak of the two ways in which we know and experience God. We have experienced God in a limited, human existence, and we experience Him as the transcendent, exclusive Spirit who continues to exist apart from the incarnation.
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Post by onenessbeliever on Jun 18, 2007 17:13:18 GMT -5
The Bible is clear that no man can see, nor has seen God. (In the Spirit) When it says we cannot see God it is referring to God's essence. God is Spirit, and as such is invisible. Jesus, however, is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the express image of His very person (Hebrews 1:3). That is why Jesus could say to Philip, "He who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9; 12:45). Jesus has often been called the face of God, and rightly so. To see Jesus is not to see God's essence, but it is to see His essence as He has manifested Himself in human form. Truly Jesus is the only God we shall ever see throughout eternity, for His human existence is the only image of God’s person available to us. We will not see God and Jesus as two distinct eternal entities, but we will see God as He has manifested Himself to us in Jesus Christ.
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 18, 2007 20:49:13 GMT -5
Ok if the essence has no intelliegence or identity of its own it isnt manifesting itself in 3 persons but these 3 gods make up a one god corporation.So your trinity is 3 gods sharing an essence since the essence is a "magic field" they have the corner on.So it sounds like the pagans may be onto something huh?
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Post by Administrator on Jun 18, 2007 22:26:52 GMT -5
Jesus Himself testified of His identity as God when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
The Bible teaches AND WE BELIEVE... Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh (Romans 1:3) and the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matthew 1:23).
Jesus is the Christ (Matthew 16:16);
the Creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17);
God with us (Matthew 1:23);
God made flesh (John 1:1-14);
God manifested in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16);
He which was, which is, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8); the mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6).
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Post by soterking on Jun 19, 2007 11:57:55 GMT -5
Joseph, Ok if the essence has no intelliegence or identity of its own it isnt manifesting itself in 3 persons but these 3 gods make up a one god corporation.So your trinity is 3 gods sharing an essence since the essence is a "magic field" they have the corner on.So it sounds like the pagans may be onto something huh? You're right...the pagans were on some sort of opiate.
In John 4:24 is "spirit" an essence or a person?
If it is a "person" then there are two "persons" in that text...God and spirit, meaning I've proved that there are at least two persons in the Godhead and your position is in error. If the verse is referring to "what" God is, i.e. a spirit, then it is speaking about His essence, meaning I've established my point because you unwillingly admit it's legitimacy.
Which is it?
Soter King
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Post by soterking on Jun 20, 2007 6:48:30 GMT -5
The Bible is clear that no man can see, nor has seen God. (In the Spirit) When it says we cannot see God it is referring to God's essence. God is Spirit, and as such is invisible. Jesus, however, is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the express image of His very person (Hebrews 1:3). That is why Jesus could say to Philip, "He who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9; 12:45). Jesus has often been called the face of God, and rightly so. To see Jesus is not to see God's essence, but it is to see His essence as He has manifested Himself in human form. Truly Jesus is the only God we shall ever see throughout eternity, for His human existence is the only image of God’s person available to us. We will not see God and Jesus as two distinct eternal entities, but we will see God as He has manifested Himself to us in Jesus Christ. Oneness believer, Not bad. In fact, very good. Soter King
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Post by soterking on Jun 20, 2007 6:58:00 GMT -5
Oneness believer,
The only caveat I would add would be...
John 12:41
37Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them." 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him.
This is in reference to Isaiah 6. In my opinion, this attests to Jesus' pre-existence, Jesus' deity, and that no one has seen the Father (Isaiah saw the Son).
Don't know that this is a big deal, because I can think of OP counter arguments against my proposition...but one thing we can agree on is that Jesus is God just based on the above text.
soter king
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 20, 2007 17:34:21 GMT -5
Again.If this "ESSENCE" IS A NON IDENTITY YOU HAVE 3 gods sharing a power.If each has a mind of their own and they think the same thoughts in unison you have a 3 clone god which makes 3 gods and all 3 are the father son and holy ghost,each. Again this "Essence" what is it? It cannot knowingly manifest itself in any form unless it had at least one mind to start with if it has 3 minds then it it isn't one essence but 3. apart from the 3 persons it manifests itself through.It cannot manifests itself without intelligence to manifests itself.If it has intelligence to manifest itself it has a mind APART from father son holy ghost.Which makes a 4th identity.You have made it clear that you worship 3 gods sharing one essence.Now tell me more about this 4 person,oops I mean essence who is a non entity and has a personality disorder.Your explanation makes no sense.If it is a non-entity then you have 3 gods who use this essence as a power source.If it developed 3 identities, why would it need more than one? Also this would be considered a multiple personality disorder.
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Post by hisprophet on Jun 21, 2007 11:27:48 GMT -5
One has said, "Water cannot be steam liquid and gas at the same time. But God is always the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."
Your are correct... steam is water, Ice is water and water is water. The analogy holds perfectly. Each of these manifestations of water have their own properties (bodies) and each their own personalities (Characteristics) just as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one... each having their own name, own personalities (the way the enteract with man), yet they are one. If you have seen steam you have seen water... if you have seen the Son you also have seen the Father.
It is time to end the game of symantics used to describe God, which no man has ever seen. We see dimly now... as thru a glass. Most doctrines of man are based on ones personal interpretation of the Word of God. The word trinity doesn't appear in the scripture and neither do many other words used to expound upon the Word of God.
Certainly, God is one. I hold to this doctrine totally. However, I see no contradiction to say God is the Son or the Father or the Holy Spirit and that these three are one. It is the doctrines of men which have divided the Chruch... the body of Christ upon the earth.
During Christ's walk in the earth as man... the jews could not agree on many things concerning the Word of God as revealed to them... they disagreed about the resurrection, the coming of Christ, how to pray, and many, many other points... yet, God called many of them His own. Even when their particular sect disagreed with the Word of God. Why?
Can the eye say to the hand I need you not or the foot to the head leave me? Nay, for God has established each member of the body that the body may be fully furnished and equiped. It is not our place to question God's will concerning the faith of others... as long as they believe in the Son of God, Jesus Christ as Lord they met the essentials for salvation. The simplicity of God's Word is often complicated by the religous... those who would attempt to obligate others to obey their ways rather that the way of God. The religous orders of Jesus's day are no differnt than many found in the earth today.
As an example, the Apostles Creed as declared by both the Lutherin and Catholic Denominations outline every essential item necessary to be born again... to be saved. Those who believe upon the Name of Jesus Christ shalt be saved. Yet, others would deny the faith of those who hold to these denominations. Man has always sought to complicate the plan of salvation; adding man's doctrines to those of God... It is faith in the Word of God (Jesus Christ) that builds the faith that brings man to repentance and a decision to acknowledge Jesus as the only begotten Son of God... It is the Word of God made flesh in us that brings us to understand that the Father, Holy Spirit and Son of God are all one.
However, be it unto thee according to thy faith... For some men esteem one day over another; while the Lord has made them all... Some will deny anothers faith because of the day they keep; the way they pray, or the method by which they are baptize. Are not all these rituals, matters of the flesh, to be kept by the flesh... Yet, we are born again as spirits of light.
For, God is a Spirit and the Father of spirits. He alone is able to see past the outward appearence of man... past the rituals of man's faith, too decern the inward thoughts and intents of the heart. God... looks not upon the works of the flesh but sees where we cannot... into the spirit of man. It is there that man is born again of the Spirit not of the flesh; born again, a living spirit, a son of God.
Can the flesh produce the works of the Spirit... or transend mortality? Nay. Therefore, judge not with the eye of the flesh, the heart and spirit of those who decalre Jesus Christ to be the Son of God... God in the flesh. Yet, for all that God has declared, there will be those who will hold to their own ways... keeping the flesh and the works of the flesh. Using the rituals of the flesh to divide the body. It is these who spread division and strife among the saints of God.
Finally, keep the faith... believe upon the name of Jesus Christ and thee and thy household shall be saved... Keep the doctrine of Christ, be baptized of water and in the Spirit that ye may prove the good, acceptable and perfect will of God. Be ready to help those who oppose themeslves in love. Remembering that God first loved ye, even while ye were in sin. Ye who are strong in the faith, restore the weak in faith... with love. Give out of the wealth and treasure of your spirit too those in need, that ye may receive a full reward in heaven.
Your Brother in Christ;
Prophet.
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 21, 2007 17:13:50 GMT -5
So your saying the essence which has intelligence has a personality disorder because it doesnt know that its its own father.It created a father figure then a son.I guess the holy ghost must be the mother figure huh?why arent there any daughters?Why stop with a son?How can they be co-equal if "god the son" had to die.Why could it had not been the father or the holy ghost?Who is incarnated as JESUS?JESUS never mentions a god the son but told Phillip"if youve seen ME youve seen the FATHER' and also said " these words are not my own they are the words of the FATHER WHO dwelleth in me"(John 14:7-11).Who is the FATHER of JESUS? Matthew and Luke BOTH record it as being the HOLY GHOST.It says "Mary was FOUND with child of the HOLY GHOST'.Nowhere are any trinitarian terms like"god the son god the holy ghost 2nd third person ever mentioned.Also why does it seem the "father' is always in charge, thats not co equal when one is always giving the orders and the 2nd and 3rd bananas are doing all the work.So you have an essence with intelligence who split its personality into a small family with no female offspring.So again, you have a quartet the essence, with its 3 alter egos.Me, I believe in ONE GOD with many attributes and many attribute title names manifested in the man JESUS CHRIST.GOD is the FATHER and at the same time HE is HOLY and HE is SPIRIT-HOLY SPIRIT,not 2 seperate persons.2 distinct attributes and just 2 of HIS many title names.It says JESUS is the EXPRESS IMAGE of HIS PERSON.Not their personS with an S making it plural.
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Post by doz on Jun 21, 2007 23:56:07 GMT -5
How do I explain the trinity??
A lie......
Blessings DOZ
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Post by ax on Jun 23, 2007 11:58:31 GMT -5
There is no trinity.
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Post by soterking on Jun 25, 2007 12:01:25 GMT -5
Joseph,
Apparently you're not listening.
Essence is "what" something is. What about that is hard to understand?
Joseph: Again this "Essence" what is it? It cannot knowingly manifest itself in any form unless it had at least one mind to start with if it has 3 minds then it it isn't one essence but 3
Re: You are equating essence with identity. You cannot do that logically, because they are different categories. I am not saying that there is one essence and three essences. Trinitarians say that there is one essence but three identities.
A mind does not have extension in space and time nor is it necessarily a secondary quality of a singular essence. It (mind), however, is the necessary cause of intellect and interaction between two distinct realities. If a reality displays intellect and interaction towards another reality that displays like proclivities then the NECESSARY conclusion is that there are two minds in action.
Your conclusion above begs the question. If one mind per essence is a necessary logical conclusion then your position is established. However, the fact that the bible gives indication that there are two minds in personal interaction with each other denies your conclusion and makes you guilty of begging the question.
soter king
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Post by bornfree on Jun 25, 2007 12:15:10 GMT -5
Jesus is the only God, the creator described in Genesis in the Bible.
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 25, 2007 16:29:47 GMT -5
Again, if you have 3 minds that are seperate and distinct then you have 3 seperate beings sharing one body power.If this is the case, then how are they co eternal, the essence would have had one mind to create 3 persons to manifest itself.Or all 3 are eternal which cannot be seeing father is always before a son.It adds up to 4 persons or 3 gods no matter how you try to add the "essence" .
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Post by soterking on Jun 26, 2007 5:02:20 GMT -5
Joseph,
Matthew 26:36-39
36Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." Two wills...two minds. Will is a product of mind
Now since there are two minds in these verses where does essence come in?
more later, soter king
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 26, 2007 16:30:04 GMT -5
Right that was the HUMANITY not a 2nd god in your 3 got trinity.JESUS was fully man and fully GOD, not god the son ...GOD.JESUS human will was subject to the SPIRIT that manifested HIMSELF in HIM .This same SPIRIT is also omnipresent.Now who is this SPIRIT?According to JESUS it is GOD the FATHER according to John 14:7-11 which blows the god the son theory out of the water.Yes there were 2 wills there human and divine, the human submitted to the divine.Col. 2:8-9 sayas ALL the FULLNESS of the GODHEAD dwells in JESUS CHRIST.Now, if GOD is 3 persons then the other 2 are subject to JESUS and they have no deity(GODHEAD means deity) because it is all in HIM.Look at revelation 4 ONE sat on the throne, this ONE WHO sat on the throne is a manifestation of the omnipresent SPIRIT and the lamb which was in the midst(middle) of the throne came out of it and represents the humanity of JESUS CHRIST- a lamb looking as if it had been slain.Not a 2nd person, but the manifestation of the one on the throne in human form.
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Post by Music Guy on Jun 26, 2007 23:23:42 GMT -5
ALL the FULLNESS of the GODHEAD dwells in JESUS CHRIST. Amen
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Post by soterking on Jun 27, 2007 9:29:55 GMT -5
Joseph,
Right that was the HUMANITY not a 2nd god in your 3 got trinity.JESUS was fully man and fully GOD, not god the son ...GOD.
No doubt that Jesus is human, and no doubt that He is God...then why does the text give the appearance of Him talking to another instead of just Him talking to Himself and using such language as... well..."Jesus says to Himself", which is what the OP inisists is going on if the flesh/spirit dichotomy is established. It cannot be established though. Where in scripture is the relationship between the Father and the Son equated as just a flesh/spirit dichotomy without distinct proclivities of personality given to each, and to each reality (Father, Son) distinctively?? Also, trinitarians do NOT believe in 3 Gods. Of course if you understood the difference between essence and identity you would acknowledge that. And to point something out to you, the codefication of the nature of Jesus as being defined as the God-man is a trinitarian equation. Read the Chalcedon creed.
JESUS human will was subject to the SPIRIT that manifested HIMSELF in HIM .This same SPIRIT is also omnipresent.Now who is this SPIRIT
And where there is "will" there is mind. Any way you cut it here...there are two distinct wills with two distinct minds.
Even in your statement above you presuppose this conclusion by using the words "Himself" and "who". Now you cannot use these words unless you have a distinct "will" and "mind" in view...and that would be distinct from Jesus whether you use the sophistic argument of the flesh/spirit dichotomy or not. You still have two minds, two wills, two persons.
more later, soter king
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Post by Roll_The_Tide on Jun 27, 2007 12:29:52 GMT -5
Well the bible says there is ONE God, so if Jesus is God, then there can be no other. So there you go. There is your answer.
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Post by soterking on Jun 27, 2007 13:15:00 GMT -5
Eva,
...and if the Father is God also?...........what do you do with that?
It's not as simple as saying, "...if Jesus is God then there can be no other"...for as soon as the text says something more,...i.e. the Father is God and Jesus talks to the Father as if He's a person...(which the OP readily admits), then a further explanation is warranted...especially if you're going to deny what is so obvious (the personal interactions between the Father and the Son).
soter king
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Post by ax on Jun 27, 2007 13:52:25 GMT -5
"‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
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Post by soterking on Jun 27, 2007 14:04:43 GMT -5
Hey ax,
Since you love Isaiah so much and since you think quoting that verse answers the question...
Isaiah 48:12-16 12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
Sound Familiar ??
13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.
14 "Come together, all of you, and listen: Which of the idols has foretold these things? The LORD's chosen ally will carry out his purpose against Babylon; his arm will be against the Babylonians.
15 I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him. I will bring him, and he will succeed in his mission.
16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, with his Spirit. Who is the me in verse 16?
Soter King
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Post by inspired on Jun 27, 2007 16:19:18 GMT -5
JESUS said that HE was the first and the last.
Revelation 1:12-18
12 And I turned to see the Voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks One like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and His countenance was as the Sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, 'Fear not; I am the First and the Last:' 18 'I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the Keys of Hell and of Death.'
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 27, 2007 16:35:39 GMT -5
Simple. The HUMANITY was praying to the SPIRIT which was manifested in HIM and also omnipresent.Do you have GOD'S SPIRIT in you?WHO do you pray to then?JESUS was praying as a man to GOD.The SAME GOD HE said dwelled in HIM in John 14:7-11 which is the FATHER.Nowhere does JESUS ever talk to a god the son or claim to be a god the son come dwon from heaven taking on human form.In fact the Bible says "when the fullness of time came GOD sent forth HIS SON made of a woman,made under the law..".So much for an eternal god the son.GOD dwelled in JESUS, not a god the son, but GOD.WHO is called , FATHER as well as HOLY SPIRIT,not referring to 2 persons, but 2 attributes of many that HE has. If JESUS was a god the son co equal the other 2 gods in your trinity, then he had no need to pray at all. JESUS had a human will as to his humanity his humanity was not divine but the GOD WHO dwelled in HIM is.The human spirit of JESUS CHRIST had a beginning as the bible says"when the fullness of time came GOD sent forth HIS son made of a woman.There is no eternal son.It says in the beginning was the word the word was with GOD and the word WAS GOD, not god the son, but GOD.It says the word (GOD, not god the son) became flesh.Mary conceived and the human body with a human spirit held the SPIRIT of GOD .According to Malachi 3:1 and John chapter 2 JESUS is the human temple of GOD'S fullness, unlike us, JESUS was given the SPIRIT without measure as it says in acts.JESUS is the ONLY mediator between GOD and man, HE is NOT a 2nd person in a fictitious trinity, but GOD the FATHER manifested in flesh. Now WHO is the FATHER of JESUS?If there are 3 persons then it cannot be GOD the FATHER because it says Mary was found with child of the HOLY GHOST.The Bible says "have we not all ONE FATHER, Hath not ONE GOD created us all?"
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Post by seriphim74 on Jun 27, 2007 23:36:37 GMT -5
Ah I see we have found our way back to this age old question. Trinitarians see three DISTINCT SEPERATE but EQUAL beings, that think as one act as one talk as one, and create as one yet still maintian a DISTINCT persona. Oneness believe that Jesus is God the one and only, the visible image of the invisible God. The doctorine of the trininty was thought upon to explain what some could not understand. The problem with that is that Peter did not teach a truine nature of God, but expressed that God had one nature which was holiness in every way and that Christ was the visible image of the holy God once again. If the nature of God was triune, Peter, Paul and the rest of the Apostles would have tought this doctorine. Yet we relied upon men of rome. Who are notorious for polythesim and other stuff. The doctorine of the trinity originated in rome like it or not it is the truth. It was a concept they thought up because they did not understand the nature of christ nor his role and relationship with the father. Or what it meant when he rose from the grave. It is a flawed doctorine in every bit of the way. God reveals himself through his word. To just put a "well it is beyond or finite mines" is a cop out. Yes God's ways are higher then ours and his thoghts our thoughts. But that has more to do with stupid questions as to why God let this or that happen. No we wont understand until the time is right and he opens our minds to it. The trinity doctorine has been a mystery for how many years? The other funny thing is that the Jews, Gods chosen people do not view God as triune, and he was made known through them. Wouldnt they agree that God was triune, I mean Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Issac, Araon, David, and many many other prophets never once alluded to God being Triune. Nor did God ever state that he was. He has said many time that he is One, all through the book of Isiah he states over and over and over and over and over, I am one, there is no God beside me, neither will there ever be, He created the heavens and the earth alone. the word alone signifies that there was no son, nor God the holyghost there. So if the father says he did it by himself, then when did it change. I mean this is God's own testimony as to who he is. Then you have Jesus who never once taught that God was triune and when he mentions the comfortter (the HolyGhost) he then says that he will come and comfort you. Also that the HolyGhost will come in His name. His name is LORD JESUS CHRIST. He said he came in the name of the father. So by trinitarian standards then All three go by the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST. To put it simply no one in the bible taught a triune nature, and God spoke through them and moved on them to write and teach the word. Heck the whole reason behind the nicean council was u had those that beleive that God was triune then u had those that believed that God was one. constantine was of rome he declared the triune nature of God to be true and made it law. It is a fact face it, anyone that oposed the newly roman church and it's triune God was killed. The fact that you can look it up in history and find out when trinity first entered into "the church" should open up alot of your eyes. But unless God open your understanding then you will stay blind, and if the blind lead the blind, well you know. I am only trying to plant the seed, let another water, but God gives the increase.
Praise Him
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