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Post by soterking on Jun 28, 2007 6:57:34 GMT -5
Inspired,
So...the ME is Jesus....uh before He was born???
Oh I agree wholeheartedly with that conclusion.
So according to Isaiah you have the ME, which is Jesus, being sent by the Soveriegn LORD...WITH His Spirit.
One's talking (the ME being sent), a quality of personhood, another is sending (the Soveriegn LORD), a quality of personhood, and the ME is being sent WITH another. You have three distinct realities, with two displaying personal proclivities and abilities (both of them exhibiting intelligence). I can count. That's three.
And that's in the OT.
WOW !
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Post by seriphim74 on Jun 28, 2007 14:59:52 GMT -5
Huh to the above, i haven't read every post but what exactly is this refering too?
Praise Him
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Post by Administrator on Jun 28, 2007 17:15:57 GMT -5
JESUS said that HE was the first and the last.Revelation 1:12-18 12 And I turned to see the Voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks One like unto the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and His countenance was as the Sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying unto me, 'Fear not; I am the First and the Last:'18 'I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the Keys of Hell and of Death.' "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19.God, the invisible Spirit, has only revealed Himself to man by manifestations. Although there are many manifestations of God, the Scriptures teach that there are basically three offices or positions in which God has manifested Himself. God was manifested as the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Ghost in emanation. "Thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it...I am the LORD; and there is NONE ELSE." Is. 45:18. "...I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF." Is. 44:24. ".. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Is. 44:8. "See now that I, even I, am He, and there is NO GOD WITH ME..." Deut. 32:39. "Have we not all ONE Father? Hath not ONE God created us" Mal. 2:10. Check this out: www.apostolic-voice.org/tracts/truth_about_onegod.htm
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Post by soterking on Jun 29, 2007 6:48:38 GMT -5
Seraphim,
Isaiah 48:16
16 "Come near me and listen to this: "From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there." And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, with his Spirit.
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Post by soterking on Jun 29, 2007 6:58:58 GMT -5
Lisa Carol,
Lisa: God, the invisible Spirit, has only revealed Himself to man by manifestations.
RE: Where does it say that?? Where is the word manifestation in the scriptures at all??
Are those "manifestations" personal?? Do those "manifestations" act like persons, with mind intellect and will?? If they do, and they do, then call them what they appear to be wanting you to call them because of how they're acting. If they didn't want people to mistake them as persons then surely they would have acted in a different manner. Which would mean that there is something that is impossible for God to do. Communicate truths to the ignorant. For without mind and intellect (secondary qualities of persons) the Father couldn't love the Son, the Son couldn't love the Father, and neither one of these "manifestations" could love you or me.
Which means, in conclusion, for the OP to be right there would be no loved lost...because there wouldn't be any love to begin with.
Soter King
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Post by inspired on Jun 29, 2007 14:41:29 GMT -5
1Cor. 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Isaiah 44:6). "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:8). Now this passage leaves little doubt about it. There is but one spirit working in the Church and that is of God. AND SCRIPTURES SAY that there is only ONE GOD. It is all in Jesus. "God is one" (Galatians 3:20). Eph. 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Eph. 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. There is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:21-22). "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me" (Isaiah 46:9). "There is none other God but one" (I Corinthians 8:4). "But to us there is but one God, the Father" (I Corinthians 8:6). "But God is one" (Galatians 3:20). "One God and Father of all" (Ephesians 4:6). "For there is one God" (I Timothy 2:5). "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).
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Post by joseph7 on Jun 29, 2007 16:43:30 GMT -5
The thing is this though there is not a trinity if you take GOD out of JESUS,you have an ordinary human being.Therefore there is NO divinity in JESUS unless GOD is in HIM.So you cannot say JESUS is god the son a co equal co eternal being which the trinity doctrine states.JESUS the man had a beginning and he was not there in creation except in the mind of GOD as to how HE would redeem lost humanity one day.So although you have 2 minds one is subject to the other proving one is NOT equal 2 wills, again one subject to the other not both subject to each other but one to the other.So your trinity doctrine falls on its face again.
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Post by seriphim74 on Jun 29, 2007 23:18:30 GMT -5
soterking
your losing me here what is that scrpture about, what are u trying to say. Is it a daily devotional. surely you understand a prohetic verse toward the son and his comming. For if you read all of the chapter heck even in verse 12 if the same chapter God says he is the first and the last, hmmm Jesus made the same statement in rev. U can only have one first and one last. Or can U? it is a prohetic verse concerning the he Son. Jesus was begotten made of a woman made under the law. A god can not become human, for in doing so he is no longer God. If as a human he can do all that a god can do he is a god and not a human, when the fullness of time came Jesus was born. I stand by my orininal post. Jews did not and have never taught that God is triune. It is one reason it is hard to win them becuase so many have perverted the doctorine with trinity, that they think we are nuts. God revealed him self to the Jews first always, if they say he is one then God is one. Jesus said God is one. Peter, Paul, all who taught it have realized this. Triune is not in the bible, it is not his nature, trinity was a system those who were void of understanding came up with. The new testement writers had understanding and the word of God is a sealed book. Only God can give revelation, the bible is not open to personal interpretation. The trinity doctorine is a personal (erroneous)(sp) interpretation. You can take it and run with it but I wont. if you read the bible on a surface level with God opening your understanding then u get nothing but surface, and your flesh along with the devil run with it. When is say surface i mean this (see when jesus was baptized there was the HolyGhost, and Jesus, and you heard the voice of God see that is three.) You only think that becuause that is what you read no understanding no revelation nothing just surface. Like the scripture u cited, surface, thats what you read so that is what you see. Do you even hear what the spirit says unto the church. No one and I mean no one in the bible taugth a triune, god is trinity, or God is three person co existing, cor eternal, seperate but one but still distinct doctorine. It is a man mad theory that did not originate from the true church of God. Rome made the trinity law becuase that was some ones on interpretation of who jesus was his relationship as a man to the father and so forth. If any trinitarian can show where they taught a triune nature of God, and i mean the say God is triune i will shut up. Why because the all openly say God is one, the jewish phraise that they hold onto till death is Deut 6:4 "here o isreal the LORD our God is one LORD" this is where the term oneness is for those who say well the word oneness is not in the bible. Oneness is our belief monothesitic the belief in one all powerfull all mighty God. The doctorine of the trinity bring about confusion it tries to hard to assert that God is one yet seperate persons. the wording itself screams it is not of God, it makes God seem like he is the borg several units speaking in one collective. God manifested himself as a burning bush to moses but you dont see a God the burning bush, if going by trinity standards then everthing God apeared as should be well a god, that works to together with the other gods to create the world and man and all life. With all thy getting get an understanding. Stop being surface, search the scripture ask the Lord to open your mind to his word that the book be no longer sealed to you. Ask God to reaveal his word to you, and If you truly want to know him join the winning side and leave that trinty stuff alone. I say this not to make u angry, but i am having more or a concern four souls that are lost and in false churches that teach lies about God. the rapture is closer now then it was 2000 years ago. If anyone hath an ear let him hear what the spirit saith to the chruch.
Praise Him .
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Post by evangel on Jun 30, 2007 15:44:54 GMT -5
Greetings all!
Humanity has worshipped many things. All supposedly with super human powers. These have included the sun, planets, rivers, insects and man made ststues. None really had super human powers.
So we see God is a title for a certain kind of being. There is indeed a real God. Through the old testament God revealed His nature and character. A list of these qualities can be used to define the true God. When we do thid we find that three persons have these qualities. We know them as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Evangel
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Post by joseph7 on Jul 1, 2007 13:19:48 GMT -5
JESUS spoke as GOD at times. HIS flesh had a birth death burial and resurrection.The flesh wasn't divine but it housed THE ONE WHO is divine.THE FIRST and the LAST was in flesh.The flesh wasn't first and last.THE GOD in that flesh is(not god the son-GOD).
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 2, 2007 1:48:37 GMT -5
Soter King:
Analogies are just that analogies... they are not meant and can not be exact representations of what they are analogous to. Instead, they are meant to be helpful as parables are helpful to understand complex problems.
You may find it more interesting to know that the water example goes beyond the physical appeance... of water as ice, steam and liquid water... too the molecular structure of water. H20... two parts hydrogen, they represent the Father and the Son; one part Oxygen representing the life giving force (air) that binds the two together... as the Holy Spirit.
We know by the physics of Chemistry, that hydrogen is the number one (1) element in the table of atomic elements. We also know that the hydrogen atom is made up on one (1) electron, one (1) proton and one (1) neutron; the three basic building blocks of the universe. Hydrogen is the singular most powerful element in the universe... representing God the Father and the Son as one.
I believe that the atomic make up of the water molecule is no accident... but a sign placed in the earth, to testify of God Himself... Scripture tells us that all creation testifies of the Lord. It is no accident that life can not exist where there is no water... Water must be present for life. God is the source of all life.
When one begins to look at water, the closer one examines the properties of this unique molecule... greater becomes the depth of the analogy for water and the trinity... demonstrating even more, how this molecule called water can help to explain the trinity...
This in no way negates the oneness of God... it confirms it. It also allows one to understand the trinitarian view of three yet one God... a trinitarian believes in only One Lord, One God of us all. A God, who has revealed Himself as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to mankind.
Once again I believe we are in a battle of symantics... the disputation of mans limited ability thru his linguistics to describe God... Too, describe a God, who no man has seen face to face.
Let us therefore, find common ground for our faith in Jesus Christ and strive for perfection in our theologies when we come face to face with God Himself. For we see only dimly now but then we will see perfectly... knowing all things clearly.
Prophet.
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Post by joseph7 on Jul 2, 2007 15:53:39 GMT -5
So 2 parts are are hydrogen and one part is oxygen,doesn't sound co equal to me.One is not the same as the other 2.The other 2 are clones and one is an odd ball.One is no good without the other meaning one has something the other 2 do not have and the other 2 have something the one doesn't have.There you go, 3 gods making up a one god corporation of water.a water god if you will.Trinitarian water god too! Who is the FATHER of JESUS?JESUS spoke of the "FATHER" HE had to have been referring to the HOLY GHOST because it says Mary was found with child of the HOLY GHOST.The water may take on different forms but it is still the same water, The ice isn't a seperate distinct body of water and the etam another and the water another.It is all a manifestation of the same water.GOD is ONE.HE is FATHER in CREATION.He is also a SPIRIT and is HOLY-HOLY SPIRIT.Not 2 distinct entities, but the SAME person 2 different attributes.This self same being manifested HIMSELF in the man JESUS CHRIST.
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 2, 2007 16:41:33 GMT -5
Soter King:
An essence is not what is being spoken of in the Trinity. The problem, once again, is that any attempt to describe an Eternal Spiritual Being (God)..using temporal logic (worldly logic) and language... fails to be adequate. Therefore, one can find points of contention, with any attempt to describe God... which no man has seen.
OK if the FATHER SON and HOLY GHOST are 3 separate distinct entities, and they all share an "essence then the essence has an intelligence which it manifests through them all meaning it has a separate intelligence to do this.
The above quote is accurate to a point... There is an essence that binds the two (Father and Son) together as one, it is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the third party of the trinity and as in the water molecular analogy becomes the common... binding force between the (2) Hydrogen atoms... that represent the Father and the Son.
It is the Holy Spirit that testifies of the Father and Son... that brings revelation knowledge to mankind. It is the Holy Spirit that unites the Godhead as ONE... It is the Holy Spirit that is the common element that binds the Body of Christ together in the earth and in the Spirit realm.
The argument that the trinity worships three separate but equal Gods is false... Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD... who, has manifested Himself to mankind, as three separate beings. Again, one can not use worldly logic to analyze this supernatural event... it must be done by the Holy Spirit. The spirit realm is not governed by the same physical laws of the universe. The Spirit realm is only present in the earth... on a spiritual plane. The Kingdom of God can not be found on the earth but it certainly exists on a spiritual plane.
Therefore, natural reasoning and logic don't always provide complete answers for Kingdom questions... Who is God, how does He operate in the earth and what does He look like? These questions can only be fully answered in the realm of the Spirit. It is by faith... spiritual logic and reasoning, that God is revealed unto mankind. Faith is the language of the Holy Spirit and the method by which God reveals Himself unto mankind. It therefore, takes faith to understand spiritual concepts... not worldly logic or reasoning.
It is interesting to note that The Holy Spirit which resides in every believer... brings the many separate parts of the body of Christ together as ONE BODY in Christ... Many members but One Body. The Body of Christ (the Church) is not a visible physical phenomenon in this earth. It is accept by those of the faith and visible only thru the Spiritual eye of the believer.
There are certainly, more than three members that comprise the Church, each with their own body and personality... Yet, God calls the Church as One Body... the Body of Christ. God refers to the Church in the singular tense even though it has multiple members. Likewise, the trinity has three members but is only One God... One Body.
The Holy Spirit exists in many places (members of Christ) all at the same time... If one believes this, then, why is it so difficult to believe the spiritual concept of a Godhead... One God, comprised of three persons; yet, ONE. The concept of the Godhead as a trinity can not be explained thru worldly logic; any more, than worldly logic can explain how the Holy Spirit resides simultaneously in Billions of Christians (each with a separate body and personality).
Further, the biblical principal of many members and One Body is universally accepted... This phenomenon can only be received thru Kingdom logic... faith. There is no actual (physical) body, visible (physically present) in the earth, called the Church; it exist in the Spirit alone... in the Kingdom of God. Yet, it is an accepted fact of faith, by all Christians; that the Church exists... as one body.
I hope this helps you to understand the position of the trinitarian... they don't believe in three Gods... They understand that God is able to manifest Himself and has manifest Himself as three separate persons... God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit... all three ONE.
If one has seen the Son they have seen the Father. I and My Father are one. How? Not by might nor by strength (worldly physical acts)... but by My Spirit saith the Lord of lords. God is able to do exceedingly and abundantly more than our carnal minds can imagine... Therefore, one can not use the logic or physical laws of this world to describe Him or to explain the way He operates... His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts... they are higher.
Your Brother in Christ;
Prophet.
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 2, 2007 17:27:42 GMT -5
joseph you hit it right on the money again. Even looking deeper into the water anology we find that he does not hold water (no pun intended) to who God is. Like prohohet said wate is made up of H2O. One is distinct and the other are clones like u said. without those two elements you could not have water. So by prophets standards God would need the holyghost and the son so that he could be God? yet The son and The holyghost would essentially be the same, and only the father different. THat was good, also the point u made about water ice and steam, that it is all the same water and nothing different . good job
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 2, 2007 17:28:07 GMT -5
Joseph7:
If I speak to you of earthly things and you can not receive them... (water analogy) how can I speak to you of heavenly things. One can not receive the things of the Spirit with the logic and laws of this world. It is thru faith the logic and reasoning of the Kingdom of God that the Holy Spirit provides man with revelation knowledge... an eye to see and an ear to hear.
The differences between oneness and the trinity are mainly symantics... a matter of human linguistic conflict. Each, is saying the same thing with different words, causing the human mind to become confused. The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion.
I pray that we all come into the unity of faith... into the full measure and stature of Jesus Christ, even as He and His Father are one; that, His body, the Church may also be one. Jesus prayed to the father in the Gospel of John that we all be one even as He and His father are one... Does this mean that your personal body and spirit are not your own? If we are all one as Jesus prayed; how is it possible that we all have our own identity? Could it be that we are made in His image and likeness... many members but one.
The laws of the natural realm don't apply to the Kingdom of God. It is only possible to receive revelation knowledge by faith... faith, is the substance of logic, in the Kingdom of God. Therefore, ones personal vision of the Godhead is a matter of faith and not worldly logic. Analogies using worldly examples can only point to the truth... they are never adequate alone to bring one to Kingdom Knowledge... revelation.
Now, let the Holy Spirit judge the things of the spirit that we may know the truth and be set free from ignorance concerning the Kingdom of God... I pray the Spirit build up your most holy faith, that your inner eye be singular... fixed upon Kingdom logic... faith in action. Let it be so, almighty God. Amen.
Prophet.
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Post by Administrator on Jul 2, 2007 18:44:26 GMT -5
Some trinitarians actually do believe in 3 separate persons. Some say they do not. But the definition of TRINITY is as listed below:Definitions of trinity on the Web: three: the cardinal number that is the sum of one and one and one the union of the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in one Godhead trio: three people considered as a unit www.m-w.com/dictionary/trinityMain Entry: Trin·i·ty Pronunciation: 'tri-n&-tE Function: noun Etymology: Middle English trinite, from Anglo-French trinité, from Late Latin trinitat-, trinitas state of being threefold, from Latin trinus threefold 1 : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma 2 not capitalized : a group of three closely related persons or things 3 : the Sunday after Whitsunday observed as a feast in honor of the Trinity See? Three people. Three PERSONS? This is not true. God is ONE.
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Post by Administrator on Jul 2, 2007 18:49:57 GMT -5
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 2, 2007 20:55:54 GMT -5
Though what you say prophet may sound good the fact of the matter is the doctorine of the trinity is a lie. It has perverted the scriptures and has made the word of God a lie. God never said he was triune, just face that fact. Just as God never told eve not to touch of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But she said that he did, she perverted the word of God and made it a lie. We all know the result of that. As I stated before Jews did not teach God is triune the true church, the church that started at pentecost taught that God was one not triune. And that Jesus was the one true God. Why teach something that is not suported by scripture because one is void of understanding. and becuase you read the surface but have no real revelation. .
Praise Him
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 2, 2007 21:11:55 GMT -5
Also I would find it funny that every trinitarian tries to explain the trinity by saying it i the symatics but oneness and trinitarians both believe in one God. But prophet uses how the church is many members but one body. But we know that the church is seperater individuals with serperate thoughts, will, and intents. So by this you imply that there are three gods and not one, but come together in agreement in one thought. Once again it is a false doctorine God is not nor will he ever be three distinct persons.
Praise Him
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Post by dakereader123 on Jul 2, 2007 22:05:45 GMT -5
How do you explain what Jesus HIMSELF said? John 14:28 (KJV) 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. [/b][/u] If Jesus is the Father, How could he be greater than HIMSELF? It is just that when I read the Bible, I see them as three different individuals. Jesus was manifested. But God the Father IS A SPIRIT. And always will be. God Bless you all. Tweety
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 3, 2007 14:42:38 GMT -5
Jesus was both human and divine. One must understand what role he played when he spoke. Yes the father is greater then the human, but of the names Jesus shall be called is the everlasting father... God in Jesus was greater then the flesh, the human side of Jesus.
Praise Him
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Post by imawitness on Jul 3, 2007 14:48:32 GMT -5
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not the ONE TRUE God, but because Jesus (THE FLESH) was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position.
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man.
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Post by Roll_The_Tide on Jul 3, 2007 14:55:26 GMT -5
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"
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Post by Dawny on Jul 3, 2007 15:32:30 GMT -5
JESUS spoke as GOD at times. HIS flesh had a birth death burial and resurrection.The flesh wasn't divine but it housed THE ONE WHO is divine.THE FIRST and the LAST was in flesh.The flesh wasn't first and last.THE GOD in that flesh is(not god the son-GOD). AMEN!
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Post by onenessapostolic on Jul 5, 2007 11:41:57 GMT -5
Here are the Scriptures to back me up that JESUS IS GOD
Genesis 17:1 God is Almighty
Rev 1:8 He is alpha and Omega
Isaiah 45:21-22 God and only Savior
Isaiah 42:8 He will not give his Glory to another
Genesis 1: tells us that God is the Creator of all things
Deu 6:3 Teaches us that the Lord our God is one God and how we and our children ought to love him
GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH
Isaiah 9:6-7 a Child is born
Isaiah 7:14 A Virgin shall conceive a son and call his name immanuel (GOD WITH US) ( JESUS IN FLESH).
Hebrews 10:5 God prepare a body for himself
Matt 1:21 the body being prepared that we might be save through his death.
John 1:1-14 The word made flesh
1 Timothy 3:16 God manifested in the Flesh
John 10:30 God and Jesus in one
John 14:8-11 God and Jesus are one
Matthew 28:18 Jesus has all power
John 8:58 Jesus was from the Beginning
Except ye believe I am he You shall die in your sins ( will find scripture)
Matt 24:5-11 Many false prophets shall come in my name and shall deceive many.
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Post by Administrator on Jul 5, 2007 17:13:24 GMT -5
Amen
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Post by redridinghood on Jul 7, 2007 12:00:30 GMT -5
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Post by joseph7 on Jul 7, 2007 22:58:37 GMT -5
LOL YOU used the water analogy and we have water on this earth.You cannot explain the trinty you either have 3 distinct separate gods making up a one god corporation, or you have a god who is an essence manifesting himself in 3 people .making it a quartet.You haven't spoken to me of HEAVENLY things, the trinity doctrine was created by men of the RCC.You speak of EARTHLY things.Now answer this question, if JESUS was "god the son" in flesh, why did HE never say that he was?He told Phillip if you have seen ME you have seen WHO?god the son?No.THE FATHER.He ALSO SAID THAT THE WORDS he SPOKE WERE not his OWN BUT THE WORDS OF THE FATHER WHO dwelled in him(not some fictitious second person god the son). Next question, WHO is the FATHER of JESUS?Matthew AND Luke BOTH record it as being the HOLY GHOST.With THAT said,either JESUS has 2 fathers ORRRRR , FATHER and HOLY GHOST are just 2 of GOD'S many attribute title names.I am created in GOD'S image, now I DEMAND to know where my other 2 clones are if HE is a trinity.I have been short changed,If GOD is 3 persons we all are.Ok body soul and spirit means 3 distinct persons for each of us!So I need to see my distinct other 2 persons.Again I am a father, a son, an uncle, a cousin ,OOOPS I WENT OVER 3 PERSONS!I have more persons than the trintiy!Does this make me superior to your trinity?I am also an artist, a musician, a mechanic, a factory worker, the list goes on and on.The fact is, YOU have ATTRIBUTE title names converted into separate persons. The Bible says "Hear O Israel, the LORD(not lords) our GOD(not gods) the LORD(not lords) IS(not are) ONE-(echad not echod, meaning one singular). The gold calf Aaron made was referred to as Elohim-gods, yet there was only ONE golden calf!It is a plurality of GODLIKE attributes not persons this refers to.
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Post by seriphim74 on Jul 8, 2007 10:07:09 GMT -5
"but but but but but but but but the trinity is just to spiritual for our finate minds. we can not comprehend the things of God. who is above us. the bible shows us God's triune nature. I mean they were all right there at the baptism of Jesus. So how would u explain that?" (<-------Sarcasm.) Praise Him
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Post by hisprophet on Jul 8, 2007 14:14:34 GMT -5
To All:
The conflict between the Oneness doctrine and the doctrine of the Trinity has created a serious rift in the body of Christ... Causing some to question the salvation of those who don't hold to their particular doctrine.
We are warned to hold to sound doctrine by Paul especially as the time draws near... for some will error and give way to seducing spirits and the doctrines of devils. Is the doctrine of the Trinity from the devil? Or is it simply caused by the semantics of language?
The Lord our God is one... This scripture is True and bears record of the central truth of God's identity. Yet, there are many scriptures that refer to God as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit... as three separate beings. What then are we to believe?
Is it possible that both are correct? Are there three or one? Or can there be one, yet three? Man frequently limits God with his human perspective... using his carnal sense to measure God and His Word. His ways are not our ways nor his thoughts our thoughts... for as the heavens are higher than earth so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa 55:8-9)
Sometime ago God gave me a simple analogy, pulled directly from creation. An analogy that demonstrates the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrines with an example found in nature. What Iam about to say may confuse some... therefore, I ask that you read it all and take some time to think, before reacting. I hold to the doctrine of One Lord, One God and One Baptism... For the Lord our God is One.
This analogy demonstrates and explains the similarities and unity of the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrine. It centers on the most essential element of life, known to man. Water... H20. The scriptures tell us all heaven and earth bears record of God.
According to the leading scientist of mankind there can be no life without water. The first element natural man seeks when determining if life is possible is water. We know that Jesus said Iam the way the truth and the life, and that there can be no life without God. God is the source of all life.
Therefore, it could be reasoned that water is a physical metaphor for God. We know that the scriptures refer to water as a type of the Word of God... cleansing the soul and washing our minds. We also know that water has long been an essential part of many religious rituals observed by Jews and Christians... Baptism, purifying etc.
If I tell you that water is Ice, a solid, would you believe me? If I tell you that water is steam, a gas would you understand? If I tell you that water is liquid, would you agree? The answer is yes, to all three. Water comes in three separate and unique forms, each with its own characteristics, personality; each with it's own body, if you will. Yet they are all ONE... water.
This physical analogy, demonstrates how the doctrine of the Trinity of God is at harmony with the Oneness doctrine... Water manifests itself in three forms, each with separate characteristics and physical bodies... yet, water is still One. Likewise the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each have separate characteristics/personalities; each, manifested in three separate forms. Yet, they are One.
This analogy is even deeper. The water molecule is made up of (2) parts Hydrogen and (1)part oxygen (H2O). The 2 parts Hydrogen represent the Father and the Son, they are One... Identical. If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father.
Hydrogen, is the number (1) element of the Atomic Table of Elements... Its weight is (1) and it's principal sub-atomic make up consists of (1) electron, (1) neutron and (1) proton. The water molecule contains (1) of each of the principal sub-atomic elements used in all creation. Science tells us, that if one can harness the power of the Hydrogen Adam, one would harness the power in the universe. God is the power of the universe.
The two hydrogen Adams are bound together by the Oxygen Adam and together they all three form the water molecule. Oxygen is the element found in the air that gives us life... The wind, the Spirit of God... if you will. It is the Spirit of God, that binds the Father and Son together as One. It is Oxygen that binds the two Hydrogen Adams together as one in water...
Using this analogy one can physically see how the Lord our God is one, and still say that God has manifested Himself thru three separate identities as explained in the Trinity. Man often struggles against himself, missing the deepest revelations of God. He that hath an eye to see let him see the our Lord is One; who manifests Himself as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... All three one.
The concept of the Trinity is hard for the natural mind to conceive. We are instructed that the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit. But, ye are not carnally minded and able to handle strong meat. The Trinity does not teach three Gods... It teaches One God, three manifestations called the Godhead... Just like water manifests itself in three forms, yet is one. Again, water comes in the physical elements of a solid, Ice; a gas, steam; and a liquid, water... each with it's own separate characteristics and physical properties... personality and bodies, yet, it remains One... water.
The Oneness Doctrine and the Trinity are not mutually exclusive. They are complementary, their differences exist primarily in the semantics of the language used to define them. Therefore rejoice, for all things are possible with God... only believe.
Your Brother in Christ;
Prophet
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